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Requested move 23 April 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus is that Formula One Grand Prix is ambiguous, subject to interpretation, and has no primary topic. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 10:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Disambugation page was moved to Formula One Grand Prix (disambiguation). Eurohunter (talk) 08:30, 23 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 22:14, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: due to the recent page move, Formula One Grand Prix now titles a page with significant content and so it must also be dispositioned. If this request is granted, then Formula One Grand Prix will be moved to Formula One Grand Prix (disambiguation). This request has been altered to reflect that fact. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 19:30, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eurohunter: I don't understand. How that is a rationale to move this page?
SSSB (talk) 08:48, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: I can't move itself. It was under "Formula One Grand Prix" name previously but someone moved it because he couldn't create disambugation then. Eurohunter (talk) 08:52, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eurohunter: the pages' logs say that this has always been the location of this article.
SSSB (talk) 09:05, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: No. It was here ("Moving so can create disamb page"). The main article is "Formula One Grand Prix" and its "List of Formula One Grands Prix" (both could be integrated as "Formula One Grand Prix" if they were shorter - but they are long enough). Eurohunter (talk) 09:15, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the proposed title would be List of Formula One Grands Prix, this page doesn't describe the events it describes the proceedings and this is therefore the optimal title. The user making the proposal claims qualifying doesn't meet their own personal definition of a "race" and has made numerous changes without consensus to other pages on those grounds. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 08:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Strongly disagree that the primary topic would be the list. Someone looking up Formula One Grand Prix is very likely to be looking up what a Grand Prix involves. You yourself have suggested that people may not know what a Grand Prix is.
    SSSB (talk) 09:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:PRECISE. Looking at the article's contents, the proposed title is exacltly what the article is describing. This article includes information that shouldn't be present in an article called "Formula One racing" as well as missing information that should be present in an article called "Formula One racing". However, it perfectly reflect the content you would expect to find in an article called "Formula One Grand Prix", that is this article explains what a "Formula One Grand Prix" is.
    SSSB (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikidata is waiting for fixed name. Eurohunter (talk) 18:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I can't work out what the nom's rationale is, but I will address what SSSB has said: I think the current name better describes what this article is about. It has the usual schedule for each event, how it proceeds, and then what happens after (with regard to podiums and points). I also will point to mine and other's comments on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Opening sentence of lead section of articles about Grands Prix pointing out that in many sources and in common usage the term "Grand Prix" only refers to the race, not the surrounding events (and no, I'm not saying always). I feel that this article should be somewhat like sections/articles for other sports which outline how an event progresses etc, eg Baseball#Rules and gameplay. A7V2 (talk) 11:57, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The only thing that the discussion at WikiProject Formula One shows is that the meaning of "Grand Prix" is open to interpretation. If your interprtation is that "Grand Prix" refers to the weekend, then my rational holds. In the event that "Grand Prix" only refers to the race, then this article descibes what happens in the event that has the Grand Prix as part of it, so my rational holds.
    This article descibes the events that happen in a Grand Prix weekend, and therefore I would go as far as to argue that renaming this page would make it consistent with the naming of 2017 British Grand Prix, which describes the events that happened in a specific Grand Prix event.
    SSSB (talk) 07:49, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: Apologies for not being a bit clearer that I'm not trying to say you are wrong (if that makes sense) but merely that I disagree (by "but I will address what SSSB has said" I meant as opposed to the unclear rationale provided by the nom). To slightly rephrase what I said above, I believe that "Formula One racing" is a better way of expressing the idea of "Formula One Gameplay" than the proposed title. A7V2 (talk) 11:36, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'll just say this, practice isn't racing. If this is "Formula One gameplay" as opposed to "What happens during an F1 race weekend" (of which the Grand Prix is the either the main part, or the event as a whole, depending on your interpretation), then shouldn't this article discuss testing? car design? These are parts of "Formula One gameplay". If testing isn't included (as it isn't competitve, so not gameplay but preperation/practice for the "gameplay"), why is practice included? In terms of "Formula One gameplay" don't have have similar significance?
SSSB (talk) 11:43, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're right that there are aspects of this article which aren't strictly "racing" but I don't agree that a name which isn't ideal should be replaced by a name which is worse/less suitable (which it is in my opinion for reasons already given). Additionally, surely you would agree that qualifying etc is a part of the sport which can be called "motor racing", even if not all of it is "racing". Should Anthony Pritchard's "The Motor Racing Year" books be renamed because they also discuss qualifying and practice (of course not, and the same for the countless other books with titles including the word "racing")? As far as I can tell, other sports don't have articles named in the way proposed (ie named for the generic event name as opposed to specific events, of course), like test match, cricket match, soccer game, football game etc, are all either redlinks or disambiguation pages. The trouble is what else could this article be called, and I'm not sure there is anything else really apart from . A7V2 (talk) 12:34, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know I implied that it was my final comment, but...
As far as football game goes, Formula One Grand Prix and Formula One racing are just as bad as each other. The problem is that Formula One is too long to include the info in this article there. As far as I am aware, motorsport is the only sport with such a wide variation in how events are structured. So comparing this to any other sport is just silly.
Additionally, surely you would agree that qualifying etc is a part of the sport which can be called "motor racing", even if not all of it is "racing". - that is exactly my point. Testing fits within that etc, but its not included in this article, seemingly because it doesn't take place during an F1 weekend. The current scope of the article text is "what happens during an F1 race weekend", but the article title (in my opinion) suggest a different scope.
SSSB (talk) 13:05, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eurohunter: I disagree. I'm not going to go around in circles about this. What makes you suggest it was moved "incorrectly"? And I still don't, and likely never will, agree that "Grand Prix" generally refers to the whole weekend/event. A7V2 (talk) 23:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@A7V2: 00:51, 16 August 2005 Johnteslade talk contribs moved page Formula One Grand Prix to Formula One Grand Prix (PSP) (Moving so can create disamb page) so he moved Formula One Grand Prix to Formula One racing becaus he needed to make Formula One Grand Prix disambugtion. It was done incorrectly because article "Formula One Grand Prix" is dominating and dismbugation page should be under Formula One Grand Prix (disambiguation). "(...) I still don't, and likely never will, agree that "Grand Prix" generally refers to the whole weekend/event (...) so what is this? Nonsense. I'm surprised that basic obvious things not obvious for some people. I can't understand how someone can not see what Grand Prix is or calling "race" a "Grand Prix". How you got it? Eurohunter (talk) 06:49, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As I said in my oppose above, see my comments on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Opening sentence of lead section of articles about Grands Prix where I and HumanBodyPiloter5 give several examples of reliable sources using the term to refer to the race only, and a few others agree with this. I don't appreciate what you appear to be insinuating with comments like "Nonsense. I'm surprised that basic obvious things not obvious for some people" and I'm not going to be lectured on the use of the English language by someone writing I can't understand how someone can not see what Grand Prix is or calling "race" a "Grand Prix". How you got it?. A7V2 (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus in that discussion is that the definition of Grand Prix is open to interpretation. The contents of that discussion can be used in either side of the arguement, but, as I explain above (imo) this article can be moved regardless of what the definition of "Grand Prix" is. More importantly, is there any need for you two to be so agressive?
SSSB (talk) 11:36, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Informal Move Request

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I won't start another formal move request yet but I do feel that "Formula One racing" is not excatly what the article is about. "Formula One Grand Prix" is precisely what the article is discussing and I'm not sure how it could be interpreted otherwise. If that is too ambiguous then "Formula One Race Weekend". Happy to repoen this discussion because "Formula One racing" is in fact very ambiguous; I would reasonably expect the article to be about the new rules around racing. Pksois23 (talk) 20:19, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree "Formula One race weekend" sounds more appropriate, and that this article does not wholly cover the meaning of "Formula One racing"—which is already broadly addressed at Formula One. Formula One Grand Prix remains a dab link, per the move request above, and Formula One Grands Prix redirects to the list of Grands Prix. WP:PRECISE suggests it should either be "Formula One race weekend" or "Formula One Grand Prix weekend"; whichever best fits WP:COMMONNAME. MB2437 10:20, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the currently title does not accurately represent the content. I also complete reject the unsupported motion that the Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Formula One Grand Prix" would be List of Formula One Grands Prix. I still think that Formula One Grand Prix should be the location for this article. Failing that "Formula One Grand Prix weekend" would work fine, and I would prefer that over "race weekend". SSSB (talk) 11:14, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree. Not every formula one race ever held was a Grand Prix.Tvx1 16:16, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This article seems to exclusively refer to World Championship Grands Prix; I agree this could be a concern should the article be expanded, whereby "race weekend" would be more appropriate than "Grand Prix weekend". There does seem to be a strong focus on the modern format, however. MB2437 16:21, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The way the article is currently written though, it focusses exclusively on the format of Grand Prix, not the more broad every Formula One race. And even if it were, that doesn't change the initial rationale that "Formula One racing" does not accurately represent the actual articles content. SSSB (talk) 17:24, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 February 2025

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Formula One racing → Formula One Grand Prix – “Formula One racing” is too broad and does not accurately reflect the article’s focus on the structure of a Formula One Grand Prix, including practice, qualifying, and the race itself. “Formula One Grand Prix” more precisely describes the subject, aligning WP:COMMONNAME. If ambiguity remains a concern, “Formula One Grand Prix weekend” is a suitable alternative. Pksois23 (talk) 20:08, 19 February 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 09:57, 27 February 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 00:53, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. The current title lacks any WP:PRECISION, completely failing to accurately represent what the article is actually about. The 2021 discussion talked alot about the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of "Formula One Grand Prix" being List of Formula One Grand Prix. I completely reject this argument. If someone was looking for a list of events, they would include "list" in their search and pluralise Grand Prix. I am therefore going to pre-emptively ask for evidence that this is the case. I think that someone searching "Formula One Grand Prix" would want to know what a Formula One Grand Prix is, and this article describes this. SSSB (talk) 09:25, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Neither title seems particularly descriptive of this article's contents to me, as both suggest a greater focus on the race than the entire event, and both seem more like titles appropriate for WP:DAB pages than for this article. "Formula One race weekend" might be a better title, but I am loathe to suggest much more since I feel a greater review of the structure and presentation of all of these supplemental Formula One articles is probably advisable. What separates this article's contents from those at Formula One regulations, for example? I don't have any immediate suggestions in this regard, but I find it quite hard to discern what the exact intent of each article is, and twenty years since they were first created it might be reasonable to have a discussion (probably at WT:F1 rather than on this talk page) about how these should be incorporated into Wikipedia as it exists in 2025. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Motorsport and WikiProject Formula One have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 09:58, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. First of all, the present title makes no sense as a description of what happens at a single event. "Formula One racing" should clearly redirect to the parent article Formula One, which declares in its opening sentence that it is an article about "racing". Secondly, the RM above seems to have failed on the grounds that Formula One Grand Prix is ambiguous. Yet the only other contenders seem to be just the list article for this topic (which wouldn't normally be the main target (see for example President of the United States vs List of presidents of the United States) and a couple of video games. Overall, the proposed title is vastly better than the current arrangement. The dab page can be moved accordingly.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:42, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Formula One Grand Prix its a lot more precise to this article. For Formula One racing is too vague and this its covered by Formula One that cover the different aspects concerning F1.Rpo.castro (talk) 12:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • Both "Formula One racing" and "Formula One Grand Prix" are things that arguably should be redirects to the main Formula One article, although as Rally Wonk says below there's also the issue that the "Formula One" article is trying to double as an article about both the category and the World Championship, which is reflective of a general issue with WP:RECENTISM throughout all of these articles. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 19:18, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Fully agree with HumanBodyPiloter5, the entire structure of F1 articles could be considered. I'd like to see an article based on the Formula One World Championship in line with the other FIA championships, with Formula One remaining as the historic and general overview of the formula as it used to be used nationally too. A championship article could have the structure of the events as a section within it. This article has a section on points scoring, even talks of years prior to the F1WC, but there isn't a 'home page' for the championship. It's all over the place.
I somewhat agree with the proposal, however I don't agree there is common enough demand for how the events are structured without wanting to know the other things about the championship, which is now the only series you find an F1 grand prix. And it is a series not a sport. Rally Wonk (talk) 17:32, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The precise title would be either "Formula One race weekend" or "Formula One Grand Prix weekend", as that is what is discussed in the article. The use of "Grand Prix" limits the scope of the article to World Championship Grands Prix, which does not cover the entire basis of Formula One motor racing. As HumanBodyPiloter5 commented above, it is an example of RECENTISM. The suggested "Formula One Grand Prix" is far more suitable than "Formula One racing", but "Formula One race weekend" would be preferable to both in my eyes. MB2437 17:58, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose moving to "Formula One Grand Prix" - My previous commentary focused on the broader issues with this article, but having ruminated on this further (and with the discussion having apparently stalled without clear consensus) I think it's best to explain my position on this article's title while it is in the current state that it is in. In my opinion having "Formula One racing" or "Formula One grand prix" be anything other than a redirect to the parent Formula One article is highly-likely to WP:ASTONISH readers. Arguably "Formula One Grand Prix" should redirect to the Geoff Crammond game per WP:DIFFCAPS (note that this game is a highly-influential and significant entry within the racing game genre), but it's probably still better if that redirects to the main Formula One article. This article is a relatively niche supplementary article about the structure of Formula One events, and both "Formula One racing" and "Formula One Grand Prix" are terms that are far too general for me to find it justifiable to have either term lead to such a niche article (per WP:ASTONISH). Personally, I think that from both a WP:PRECISION and WP:CONCISION perspective the option I would most support would be moving to "Formula One weekend", although "Formula One race weekend" and "Formula One grand prix weekend" would both be perfectly acceptable. I think the WP:ASTONISH aspect really needs to be considered here. I struggle to imagine that a majority of the people typing "Formula One Grand Prix" into the search bar would be looking for an article on this subject. I suspect that it would mostly be a combination of people looking for the Formula One article, people looking for the list of Formula One Grands Prix article, and people looking for the Formula One Grand Prix (video game) article. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 11:17, 30 March 2025 (UTC)HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 23:35, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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